Episode #7 When Will They Learn?

In a funny episode complete with robotic pigeons and disturbing AI-generated images (see below), Greg and Caiti look at some of the more popular conversations in the education world right now. Starting off with a discussion around gamification and broader technology use in the classroom, they consider the role of schools and the impacts of trying to appeal to student interests in a contrived way in the classroom.

They then switch to a research theme for the remainder of the episode, starting off with a discussion about Professor John Hattie’s research, in light of recent allegations about plagiarism in his work. The conversation centres on the research methodology used and flaws within this. Finally, they draw on a presentation that contrasts the ‘Science of Learning’ with the ‘sciences of learning’: what they mean for ‘fun’ in the classroom, teacher professional judgment and education research in general.

Caiti’s horrifying AI-generated image of the ‘bodymind’. Doesn’t look like an organ of intelligence to me.

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Get in touch

Greg Ashman

Greg is a school leader at Ballarat Clarendon College and holds a PhD in instructional design from UNSW.

Substack – Filling the Pail

LinkedIn – Greg Ashman

X/Twitter – @greg_ashman

If you’re interested in working with Greg at Ballarat Clarendon College, please see here for open roles and expressions of interest.

Caiti Wade

Caiti is a leader of pedagogy at a boys’ secondary school in Brisbane and is doing her EdD in applications of cognitive load theory to secondary mathematics.

Substack – The Disruptive Educator

LinkedIn – Caiti Wade

X/Twitter – @caiti_wade

Episode resources

• You Can’t Game Your Way to a Real Education - The New York Times

• Professor John Hattie from the University of Melbourne School of Education probed over plagiarism | Herald Sun

• ‘Defending John Hattie’ - Greg’s Substack, Filling the Pail

• Balancing structured instruction with creative freedom: Navigating the path to effective and joyful learning - University of Melbourne Presentation

• ‘most likely. most students. most of time’ - Caiti’s Substack, The Disruptive Educator

• Greg’s Tweet about the ‘bodymind’:

  

  Greg Ashman@greg_ashman

  To be fair, some people’s organ of intelligence is clearly embodied.

  

  Greg Ashman @greg_ashman

  It's official. Embodied cognition is the latest excuse for failure-prone progressive education. "Our organ of intelligence is the unified bodymind."

  8:57 AM · Apr 28, 2026 · 934 Views

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  1 Reply · 6 Likes

Acknowledgement of country

We would like to acknowledge The Traditional Custodians of the lands on which we record this podcast, the lands of the Wadawurrung People, and those of the Jagera and Turrbal Peoples, and pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging.